Can you talk about what if? this is a new bull market actually
starting.........I don't believe it for a minute but there are
newsletter writers all over the place now claiming this is a new
bull market starting or evolving.......Funny how most of them have
missed the rally since March so we should take this as a sign that
bullish sentiment is getting really high.........Even Mike Swanson
a perma bear has all of a sudden switched to the bull camp out of
nowhere?
Just wanted you guys to talk about the faint possibility of it
really being a bull market and what to watch for that would be
significant.....thanks.........You guys are great.
Here is what I wrote as a response to a similar question from a
member:
We have always stated that this bear market rally would convince
many that the bear market was over and that "glory days were here
again." Did you see the cover of Newsweek? It
proclaimed that the recession was over. While we have yet to
reach sentiment levels associated with Primary Wave highs, we are
certainly seeing signs of such complacency returning (look at the
VIX). Anyway, we (nor anyone else) can say unequivocally when
the top will be but we believe it's time to become more cautious
(when looking at the bigger picture). China has promoted an
expansion of credit (debt) which has served to offset the declining
US consumer recently BUT this too will be unsustainable as the
whole world faces unparralleled deflationary pressures going
forward. We are cogizant of these facts but cannot be precise
in when they will begin to impact stock prices.
As far as investing based upon this premise, our first
concern is SAFETY OF PRINCIPLE. Specifically, we want to have
our money in the safest place possible should the next wave down
unfold. Investors could profit from the decline but they have
to make sure they can actually collect upon those profits should
things get ugly. Thus, you may want to concentrate on finding
safe places to invest (see Goldmoney.com for one suggestion) and
shorting with non-leveraged intruments. If looking at the
leveraged instuments, I would prefer to short the LONG funds as you
mentioned below but only during the initial phase of the
decline.
Posted by duke_and_duke on 3rd of Aug 2009 at 09:44 am
useful to know that the 1929/30 crash and the Nikkei crash had
Primary B wave rallies that lasted 5 months (plus, but less than 6
months) with similar %-returns off the bottom
- don't know if we come into that same timeline, but we KNOW
that a current market reversal from here has very solid
precedent
Steve are you saying in the next decline, its better to short
say the qld (long fund) vrs buying the qid , leveredged funds in
the next decline? Is this because of volatility decay?
Posted by simon_says on 2nd of Aug 2009 at 09:34 am
If you can, because a lot of brokers won't let you short 2x, 3x
ETFs.... because they don't have enough on hand (i.e. naked
shorting) or they haven't reached the critical market
volume...
Thanks Steve and others..........I didn't need convincing that
this wasn't a new bull market just found it interesting how many
perma-bears including analysts such as Mike Swanson who wrote
article after article on this just being a bear market rally and
now all of sudden have flip flopped to a new bull......Just found
it astounding to me that so many get sucked in even so "called"
professionals.......Just goes to show you how lucky we are to be
members here at breakpoint.
Interesting article by Adam Hamilton at zeal.com who says the
cyclical bull markets within a long term secular bear are driven by
sentiment and not stock valuations and you can really see that with
what is going on with the bullish extremes right now and the
bearish extremes back in March before the rally.........He goes to
state that secular trends(bear or bull) tend to end when valuations
get to extremes such as March 2000.......therefore this secular
bear will not end until the markets valuations come down to lower
digit P/Es or profits catch up to current P/Es which could take
years and mean a sideways trading market for many years
interspersed with many cyclical bear and bull between........Growth
is really going to be stagnant the next few years so either it will
take a long time to get profits that reflect true P/Es or we will
have a dramatic drop in the stock market to reflect the true market
valuations........sorry for rambling......have a great weekend
all.
Posted by junkmaylbox on 1st of Aug 2009 at 01:04 am
If you don't believe it, there is nothing to talk about... This
is a high-end technical site for adults who can tell truth from
lies and who don't believe popular hogwash. Matt and Steve already
answered this question many times. They work hard to provide us
with quality predictions that materialize exactly as stated. Has
anybody else from your newsletter writers, including your favorite
Mike Swanson, had the same record to valid predictions??
I don't know if we're starting a new bull market or not, but
Mike Swanson thinks so based on a technical event that he's been
anticipating, namely that many stocks and indices have been
trading above their 200 dma's (and other long-term averages) for
months, and that these same averages are starting to turn up.
So less sentiment and more indicator for him. But whether we're
in a bull or bear market, I really don't know at this point. I
guess we'll wait and see. One can profit either way by trading the
shorter-term.
Posted by junkmaylbox on 1st of Aug 2009 at 12:46 am
Bull markets require a period of consolidation of at least 8
months before breaking out of patterns. Has anybody seen anything
like that now yet? Mike S. is a mere amateur in the markets rife
with mainpulation. People who lost money following his advice are
not going to be kind to him.
Matt/Steve, Can you talk about what
Posted by bullau on 31st of Jul 2009 at 05:02 pm
Matt/Steve,
Can you talk about what if? this is a new bull market actually starting.........I don't believe it for a minute but there are newsletter writers all over the place now claiming this is a new bull market starting or evolving.......Funny how most of them have missed the rally since March so we should take this as a sign that bullish sentiment is getting really high.........Even Mike Swanson a perma bear has all of a sudden switched to the bull camp out of nowhere?
Just wanted you guys to talk about the faint possibility of it really being a bull market and what to watch for that would be significant.....thanks.........You guys are great.
Here is what I wrote
Posted by steve on 1st of Aug 2009 at 02:14 pm
Here is what I wrote as a response to a similar question from a member:
We have always stated that this bear market rally would convince many that the bear market was over and that "glory days were here again." Did you see the cover of Newsweek? It proclaimed that the recession was over. While we have yet to reach sentiment levels associated with Primary Wave highs, we are certainly seeing signs of such complacency returning (look at the VIX). Anyway, we (nor anyone else) can say unequivocally when the top will be but we believe it's time to become more cautious (when looking at the bigger picture). China has promoted an expansion of credit (debt) which has served to offset the declining US consumer recently BUT this too will be unsustainable as the whole world faces unparralleled deflationary pressures going forward. We are cogizant of these facts but cannot be precise in when they will begin to impact stock prices.
As far as investing based upon this premise, our first concern is SAFETY OF PRINCIPLE. Specifically, we want to have our money in the safest place possible should the next wave down unfold. Investors could profit from the decline but they have to make sure they can actually collect upon those profits should things get ugly. Thus, you may want to concentrate on finding safe places to invest (see Goldmoney.com for one suggestion) and shorting with non-leveraged intruments. If looking at the leveraged instuments, I would prefer to short the LONG funds as you mentioned below but only during the initial phase of the decline.
useful to know that the
Posted by duke_and_duke on 3rd of Aug 2009 at 09:44 am
useful to know that the 1929/30 crash and the Nikkei crash had Primary B wave rallies that lasted 5 months (plus, but less than 6 months) with similar %-returns off the bottom
- don't know if we come into that same timeline, but we KNOW that a current market reversal from here has very solid precedent
SHORTING
Posted by RM686 on 2nd of Aug 2009 at 09:06 am
Steve are you saying in the next decline, its better to short say the qld (long fund) vrs buying the qid , leveredged funds in the next decline? Is this because of volatility decay?
If you can, because a
Posted by simon_says on 2nd of Aug 2009 at 09:34 am
If you can, because a lot of brokers won't let you short 2x, 3x ETFs.... because they don't have enough on hand (i.e. naked shorting) or they haven't reached the critical market volume...
again regarding Shorts for 2x
Posted by matt on 3rd of Aug 2009 at 09:53 am
again regarding Shorts for 2x and 3x ETF's, the best broker by far is Interactive Brokers, I never have any problem shorting with them.
Thanks Steve and others..........I didn't
Posted by bullau on 1st of Aug 2009 at 03:57 pm
Thanks Steve and others..........I didn't need convincing that this wasn't a new bull market just found it interesting how many perma-bears including analysts such as Mike Swanson who wrote article after article on this just being a bear market rally and now all of sudden have flip flopped to a new bull......Just found it astounding to me that so many get sucked in even so "called" professionals.......Just goes to show you how lucky we are to be members here at breakpoint.
Interesting article by Adam Hamilton at zeal.com who says the cyclical bull markets within a long term secular bear are driven by sentiment and not stock valuations and you can really see that with what is going on with the bullish extremes right now and the bearish extremes back in March before the rally.........He goes to state that secular trends(bear or bull) tend to end when valuations get to extremes such as March 2000.......therefore this secular bear will not end until the markets valuations come down to lower digit P/Es or profits catch up to current P/Es which could take years and mean a sideways trading market for many years interspersed with many cyclical bear and bull between........Growth is really going to be stagnant the next few years so either it will take a long time to get profits that reflect true P/Es or we will have a dramatic drop in the stock market to reflect the true market valuations........sorry for rambling......have a great weekend all.
If you don't believe it,
Posted by junkmaylbox on 1st of Aug 2009 at 01:04 am
If you don't believe it, there is nothing to talk about... This is a high-end technical site for adults who can tell truth from lies and who don't believe popular hogwash. Matt and Steve already answered this question many times. They work hard to provide us with quality predictions that materialize exactly as stated. Has anybody else from your newsletter writers, including your favorite Mike Swanson, had the same record to valid predictions??
I don't know if we're
Posted by user32 on 1st of Aug 2009 at 12:18 am
I don't know if we're starting a new bull market or not, but Mike Swanson thinks so based on a technical event that he's been anticipating, namely that many stocks and indices have been trading above their 200 dma's (and other long-term averages) for months, and that these same averages are starting to turn up.
So less sentiment and more indicator for him. But whether we're in a bull or bear market, I really don't know at this point. I guess we'll wait and see. One can profit either way by trading the shorter-term.
Bull markets require a period
Posted by junkmaylbox on 1st of Aug 2009 at 12:46 am
Bull markets require a period of consolidation of at least 8 months before breaking out of patterns. Has anybody seen anything like that now yet? Mike S. is a mere amateur in the markets rife with mainpulation. People who lost money following his advice are not going to be kind to him.
FWIW my understanding is that
Posted by john9o9 on 31st of Jul 2009 at 09:20 pm
FWIW my understanding is that tops in bear market ralllies is when sentiment gets to a bullish extreme. Interesting as to what Matt/Steve see here?