If you have a mechanical system which uses 6 minute charts, with
29 and 86 ema indicators, would you get identical results using a 3
minute chart with 58 and 172 ema indicators? My available
displays on Scottrade are 1, 3, 5, 15, etc. No 6.
Thanks for the help...
Posted by dbray740 on 17th of Apr 2009 at 09:17 pm
Unfortunately I don't think it would work the same. The trick
with EMAs is that they place more emphasis on more recent candles,
and so that would mess it up (since you have twice as many candles
on a 3 min as opposed to a 6 min). I'm sure you could find a good 5
min one that works nearly as well. I'm personally a big fan of 15
minute systems though (mainly because the 6 min are a pain to
backtest), and I think you've got a few 15 min systems at your
disposal.
I don't know how easily you'll find a five-minute that's
comparable. You'd have to really do some backtesting.
It's amazing how poorly many symbols do on a 5-min compared to a
6-min chart. Rather than trying to work around it in this
way, seems like it would be easier and less time consuming to just
change brokers. The charting limitations will just always be
holding you back if you're serious about trading this way.
Michael- I agree totally with Michael! As he said, there is a
reason why I use 6 min charts; they work far better than 5 min
charts, it's that simple. I did not pick 6 min charts to make
it harder for you to follow and set them up, I picked them because
they perform a lot better with back-testing than 5 min
charts.
I've tested all time frames from 1 min - 100 min charts to day
charts, I've ran back tests for many days, 6 min almost always
outperform 5 min, it's that simple. I get asked all the time
to provide the comparable MA's for a 5 min chart or 10 min chart; I
cannot. Just get a professional charting program that is not
limited to to certain time frames, Esignal, Tradestation, Qcharts,
and I'm sure others will work. Again I have been nice enough
to provide the mechanical system, most website will not even give
these mechanical systems out or would keep them as a 'black box'
and then sell you the signals for a huge premium. Others
might charge a very high extra premium membership, what we charge
on this website for this information is an insane bargain
IMO. My point is, just having the information and the
parameters is huge.
For myself, I get constant requests from members or two week
members to make these systems available on 5 min charts, or 10 min
chartgs, However I also get contstant requests from folks asking me
to program the systems for them on their own machines! I've
even had numerous requests from folks wanting me to call them
personally on the phone and walk them through step by step on how
to program the sytstems, etc, one person even wanted to fly to my
city and bring his laptop for me to program it on his
machine. Folks, you have to realize I don't have time for
that. Also on your end, isn't the inforation good enough on
its own? For your part, do not be lazy. If you really
want to automate these systems, you will need to personally take
the time and spend hrs to figure it out. I had to go through
this myself, all of us did. Nothing comes easy, just take the
time and figure it out, hire a programmer, etc, but I am not set up
logistically to tell you how to program these systems. I only
know Tradesation and plus,
I didn't program it
myself! I'm not a programmer, a friend of mine gave me the
code and helped me out. I am not allowed to share the code
because it is not mine. Others here like Michael have
hired programmers to write the code, it's pretty cheap, maybe only
a couple hundred dollars. But I know nothing about Ameritrade
or orher systems, and so I could not help you with them
anyway. Plus since I didn't write the code for Tradestation,
I can't tell you how to do it either.
Posted by doctormike on 18th of Apr 2009 at 04:38 pm
Amen! I have been working with a local hedge fund manager and I
try to give him advice and tell him about mechanical systems
ect...and he wants me to set it all up for him or I am holding
something back from him. Give me a break...trading is
hard....making a living trading is even harder, why do you think
there is a 90% failure rate <in futures anyway>? If you don't
want to or can't do the work you really have no place trading. As
Matt said we ALL had/have to go through this and it is a pain in
the butt but a necessary evil if you want to succeed. And
proprietary indicators are just that PROPRIETARY!! They can not be
shared, someone trusted someone with one of their indicators or
someone paid for them...either way they were acquired
through YEARS of trading and hardships, losses,
disappointments, ect.... The information you get here, or anywhere
for that matter, should be incorporated into your overall trading
strategy but that does not mean you are not responsible for doing
the work or DD... be glad you have the information, and if it is
valuable to you and you really want to succeed in this line of
work, you will find a way to use it or make it work for you,
instead of depending on others.
OK...done venting, I feel better now. Matt, Steve I don't
know how you handle helping a couple hundred traders...I got
immensely frustrated helping one!
that...wayyyyyyyyyyyy 2 many people think ok...lets automate
this and that and we set for life...not a chance.
Even the systems that are automated (or ones u can), would not
leave me thinking Nirvana is here, too old in the tooth to allow
anything but my own hand do the the work. Lets put it nice and
simple...You want to make money, work for it; study for it and go
through the blood, sweat and tears for it. At least then one can
say it is earned. 90% of traders fail..simply because it is 2 hard
work and 2ndly because the systems fail and they don't obey simple
money management rules (and because they haven't bothered to learn
the mechanics themselves disregard it once it fails) and thus
crunch time leaves them disenchanted and looking elsewhere...ce la
vie...more power to my arm and those who WORK hard to achieve
Nirvana...
Many hedgefunds
are paid like kings to earn even modest returns for
clients.
Most individual
traders fail dreadfully for lack of discipline/methodology/risk
management.
OPEN
SYSTEMS:
By Matt and
others allowing us access to systems it does several things:
If you were to
achieve even a 3% per/month return you'd be outperforming most of
the world investment community. (Well worth the effort to setup
your system).
The fact that
Matt hasn't made his systems "black box" gives subcribers incentive
not share these with everyone and their mother.....lol
Exposure to
Matt's, Unsane's etc. automated systems, Ravun and other trader's
methodologies has an OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE effect. Your able to
build on it and morph it into your own innovative systems,
methodology. Although this part is voluntary,
sharing your ideas with this investment community would
breed yet more ideas.
Posted by rgoodwin on 19th of Apr 2009 at 12:31 pm
I have to agree with Matt, Doctor Mike and Ravun. I haven't been
trading that long, fortunately have had reasonable success
thus far. I know everyday though that unless I stay disciplined and
understand the market can take it all back at anytime, that success
can be gone in an instant. I read incessantly about trading and
related topics, I study, I research, I listen, I learn. This has
been far more than a full time job getting to learn the business
- it has to be. No entrepreneur ever had huge success without
blood and guts damn hard work preceeding that success - and
continual searching for the better way or process.
As for the mechanical systems - there are a few out here that as
Matt said have not only spent money for programming - generally a
smallish price - what they have spent for those systems though is
hundreds if not thousands of hours backtesting researching and
locating just ONE system that might have a winning opportunity -
and maybe for only ONE symbol. This is labor intensive research
that is not something folks want to just give away. With very few
exceptions, I have not seen posts on this blog from any member
that has found a use for the MA crossover strategy other than what
Matt originally posted. Is this because others don't want to share
what they have found or is it because they haven't taken the time,
energy, and hours of research to discover another use? Is it likely
that a MA system only works on the 4 symbols Matt has shared with
us? Hummmmm.....
I would suggest many here would be willing to share a bit more
with regard to the mechanicals, if indeed there was a sense that
others in the community are doing the same hard work that those of
us that have made additional discoveries have done. When Matt first
showed us his Mechanicals, anyone that did not find a programmer to
get the program done for their platform is just looking for it to
be handed to them - this is not what you should be doing if you
want to be a trader. Within this community, many use the same
platforms, why didn't or don't folks band together and agree to
share the cost of the programming. Folks - it's not that expensive
and if a few hundred bucks spent for something that could
potentially be returned in one trade is too much to spend for your
education and tools - I say you need to do something besides trade
with your time.
Let's not assume Matt is here to spoon feed any of us - he and
Steve do plenty of that anyway, and let us continue as a great
sharing community, but let's not be so crass as to think any one
person on this site should be telling everything they know or have
discovered either. Do some work, spend a few bucks to buy a book -
or a PROGRAM - and then when you have invested in these tools and
just need a little guidance - I guarantee there is going to be more
guidance than you could ever dream of. - I know because I have been
the beneficiary of that guidance here on BPT. Learn to
Fish.....
mechanical system
Posted by thefos on 17th of Apr 2009 at 04:20 pm
If you have a mechanical system which uses 6 minute charts, with 29 and 86 ema indicators, would you get identical results using a 3 minute chart with 58 and 172 ema indicators? My available displays on Scottrade are 1, 3, 5, 15, etc. No 6. Thanks for the help...
thefos
Unfortunately I don't think it
Posted by dbray740 on 17th of Apr 2009 at 09:17 pm
Unfortunately I don't think it would work the same. The trick with EMAs is that they place more emphasis on more recent candles, and so that would mess it up (since you have twice as many candles on a 3 min as opposed to a 6 min). I'm sure you could find a good 5 min one that works nearly as well. I'm personally a big fan of 15 minute systems though (mainly because the 6 min are a pain to backtest), and I think you've got a few 15 min systems at your disposal.
where do u backtest?
Posted by estelleoc on 18th of Apr 2009 at 07:13 am
where do u backtest?
tradestation, esignal, ninjatrader, also I
Posted by Michael on 18th of Apr 2009 at 07:46 am
tradestation, esignal, ninjatrader, also I guess Ameritrade Strategy Desk, Fidelity Wealth Lab Pro
I don't know how easily
Posted by Michael on 17th of Apr 2009 at 11:08 pm
I don't know how easily you'll find a five-minute that's comparable. You'd have to really do some backtesting. It's amazing how poorly many symbols do on a 5-min compared to a 6-min chart. Rather than trying to work around it in this way, seems like it would be easier and less time consuming to just change brokers. The charting limitations will just always be holding you back if you're serious about trading this way.
Michael - I agree totally with
Posted by matt on 18th of Apr 2009 at 03:23 pm
Michael - I agree totally with Michael! As he said, there is a reason why I use 6 min charts; they work far better than 5 min charts, it's that simple. I did not pick 6 min charts to make it harder for you to follow and set them up, I picked them because they perform a lot better with back-testing than 5 min charts.
I've tested all time frames from 1 min - 100 min charts to day charts, I've ran back tests for many days, 6 min almost always outperform 5 min, it's that simple. I get asked all the time to provide the comparable MA's for a 5 min chart or 10 min chart; I cannot. Just get a professional charting program that is not limited to to certain time frames, Esignal, Tradestation, Qcharts, and I'm sure others will work. Again I have been nice enough to provide the mechanical system, most website will not even give these mechanical systems out or would keep them as a 'black box' and then sell you the signals for a huge premium. Others might charge a very high extra premium membership, what we charge on this website for this information is an insane bargain IMO. My point is, just having the information and the parameters is huge.
For myself, I get constant requests from members or two week members to make these systems available on 5 min charts, or 10 min chartgs, However I also get contstant requests from folks asking me to program the systems for them on their own machines! I've even had numerous requests from folks wanting me to call them personally on the phone and walk them through step by step on how to program the sytstems, etc, one person even wanted to fly to my city and bring his laptop for me to program it on his machine. Folks, you have to realize I don't have time for that. Also on your end, isn't the inforation good enough on its own? For your part, do not be lazy. If you really want to automate these systems, you will need to personally take the time and spend hrs to figure it out. I had to go through this myself, all of us did. Nothing comes easy, just take the time and figure it out, hire a programmer, etc, but I am not set up logistically to tell you how to program these systems. I only know Tradesation and plus, I didn't program it myself! I'm not a programmer, a friend of mine gave me the code and helped me out. I am not allowed to share the code because it is not mine. Others here like Michael have hired programmers to write the code, it's pretty cheap, maybe only a couple hundred dollars. But I know nothing about Ameritrade or orher systems, and so I could not help you with them anyway. Plus since I didn't write the code for Tradestation, I can't tell you how to do it either.
Amen! I have been working
Posted by doctormike on 18th of Apr 2009 at 04:38 pm
Amen! I have been working with a local hedge fund manager and I try to give him advice and tell him about mechanical systems ect...and he wants me to set it all up for him or I am holding something back from him. Give me a break...trading is hard....making a living trading is even harder, why do you think there is a 90% failure rate <in futures anyway>? If you don't want to or can't do the work you really have no place trading. As Matt said we ALL had/have to go through this and it is a pain in the butt but a necessary evil if you want to succeed. And proprietary indicators are just that PROPRIETARY!! They can not be shared, someone trusted someone with one of their indicators or someone paid for them...either way they were acquired through YEARS of trading and hardships, losses, disappointments, ect.... The information you get here, or anywhere for that matter, should be incorporated into your overall trading strategy but that does not mean you are not responsible for doing the work or DD... be glad you have the information, and if it is valuable to you and you really want to succeed in this line of work, you will find a way to use it or make it work for you, instead of depending on others.
OK...done venting, I feel better now. Matt, Steve I don't know how you handle helping a couple hundred traders...I got immensely frustrated helping one!
DocM
Ditto
Posted by ravun on 19th of Apr 2009 at 09:52 am
that...wayyyyyyyyyyyy 2 many people think ok...lets automate this and that and we set for life...not a chance.
Even the systems that are automated (or ones u can), would not leave me thinking Nirvana is here, too old in the tooth to allow anything but my own hand do the the work. Lets put it nice and simple...You want to make money, work for it; study for it and go through the blood, sweat and tears for it. At least then one can say it is earned. 90% of traders fail..simply because it is 2 hard work and 2ndly because the systems fail and they don't obey simple money management rules (and because they haven't bothered to learn the mechanics themselves disregard it once it fails) and thus crunch time leaves them disenchanted and looking elsewhere...ce la vie...more power to my arm and those who WORK hard to achieve Nirvana...
BLACK BOX
Posted by lpwise on 19th of Apr 2009 at 11:00 am
Black Box
Posted by rgoodwin on 19th of Apr 2009 at 12:31 pm
I have to agree with Matt, Doctor Mike and Ravun. I haven't been trading that long, fortunately have had reasonable success thus far. I know everyday though that unless I stay disciplined and understand the market can take it all back at anytime, that success can be gone in an instant. I read incessantly about trading and related topics, I study, I research, I listen, I learn. This has been far more than a full time job getting to learn the business - it has to be. No entrepreneur ever had huge success without blood and guts damn hard work preceeding that success - and continual searching for the better way or process.
As for the mechanical systems - there are a few out here that as Matt said have not only spent money for programming - generally a smallish price - what they have spent for those systems though is hundreds if not thousands of hours backtesting researching and locating just ONE system that might have a winning opportunity - and maybe for only ONE symbol. This is labor intensive research that is not something folks want to just give away. With very few exceptions, I have not seen posts on this blog from any member that has found a use for the MA crossover strategy other than what Matt originally posted. Is this because others don't want to share what they have found or is it because they haven't taken the time, energy, and hours of research to discover another use? Is it likely that a MA system only works on the 4 symbols Matt has shared with us? Hummmmm.....
I would suggest many here would be willing to share a bit more with regard to the mechanicals, if indeed there was a sense that others in the community are doing the same hard work that those of us that have made additional discoveries have done. When Matt first showed us his Mechanicals, anyone that did not find a programmer to get the program done for their platform is just looking for it to be handed to them - this is not what you should be doing if you want to be a trader. Within this community, many use the same platforms, why didn't or don't folks band together and agree to share the cost of the programming. Folks - it's not that expensive and if a few hundred bucks spent for something that could potentially be returned in one trade is too much to spend for your education and tools - I say you need to do something besides trade with your time.
Let's not assume Matt is here to spoon feed any of us - he and Steve do plenty of that anyway, and let us continue as a great sharing community, but let's not be so crass as to think any one person on this site should be telling everything they know or have discovered either. Do some work, spend a few bucks to buy a book - or a PROGRAM - and then when you have invested in these tools and just need a little guidance - I guarantee there is going to be more guidance than you could ever dream of. - I know because I have been the beneficiary of that guidance here on BPT. Learn to Fish.....
This has worked for me
Posted by blue on 17th of Apr 2009 at 04:27 pm
This has worked for me (similar time interval restrictions on Fidelity Active Trader Pro)