Posted by billrosen on 7th of Oct 2009 at 10:28 am
I just heard on the radio this morning Florida is giving
something like $25 million to people in the state that are falling
behind with their bills. Specifically Broward County where I live
is dishing out $500k to people that have missed a utility bill,
mortgage payment, rent payment, etc...of course only if those
people fall under the 50% mark income per household. Those at the
mean average and above get nothing. This is how Chavez started 10
years ago in Venezuela. Get the poor, lazy and ignorant masses on
your side and you can turn a great capitalist country into a
socialist/communist shit hole.
Posted by billrosen on 7th of Oct 2009 at 12:00 pm
Oh, so it is not their fault they are poor??? Who's fault
is it then??? Who's responsibilty it is to make them rich??? You
won't find that in the constitution. Although there are
exceptions, the vast mojority of the poor and ignorant are living
the lives they live because they make really dumb decisions in
their lives time and time again. Tough times are pretty much
guaranteed when people
chooseto have 3
kids before they are 20 years old,
choosebe a
criminal and have a felony on their record so they can't get
a decent job,
chooseto abuse
drugs or alcohol,
chooseto be a
horrible parent to their kids so they have no role models,
chooseto stay on
welfare,
chooseto take the
food stamps,
chooseto not learn
English,
chooseto collect
unemployment,
chooseto accept unemployment because it pays not
to work. That is why the poor and stupid remain that way and
yes it their fault and their problem to fix, NOT mine, or yours,
our governments problem to fix. The nice thing about America (or at
least it was) even the most uneducated and poorest people from the
most humble backgrounds can stay in school, save money, live below
their means, raise their kids correctly and become quite wealthly
with hard work and persistence. The problem is we just don't teach
personal responsibilty to anyone, anywhere, on any level,
anymore.
Posted by billrosen on 7th of Oct 2009 at 01:27 pm
Hey, everyone makes mistakes, but most people learn from
them, however those that make immensely stupid, apathetic
and self destructive decisions over and over again deserve
what they get...and my point was, it is their own problem to solve,
not anyone elses. We are soley responsible to ourselves what we get
out of life. Ultimately that philosophy of self reliance will help
lift them out of the lower class. Apparently do not understand
stand that. If you think my point is invalid, why don't
you pony up half of your paycheck each week to the poor
in your own neighborhood since they desperately deserve help to get
out of the problems society has so unfairly burdened them with?
King Edward VI of England was convinced that not all poverty is
the same, but arises from three causes -- casualty, impotence and
thriftlessness. He was also convinced that he would help all the
poor except those in the third class. Those who wasted their money,
due to their lifestyle or financial decisions, would receive
nothing due to their lack of thriftiness.
If our financial institutions go down the drain, it will be
because of thriftlessness, not casualty or impotence. The Clinton
administration allowed a law to be changed so that banks could be
reckless in their investments. Both the Bush and Obama
administrations deemed the large banks too big to fail, despite the
choices they have made. In the process, unfortunately for us, we
will pay dearly, due to the debt that has been placed on our
shoulders. We can invest wisely, but not without an awareness of
the dangers that lie ahead.
And I stand by my original assertion - if "Robin Hood" steals
from the rich and gives to the poor, then said Hood doesn't exist,
since nobody steals from the rich.
That's true. If you look at things the right way, nobody ever
steals from the rich. Everyone else gets robbed, but nobody ever
really steals from the rich, because the rich know how the system
works. (After all, it's how they got rich in the first
place.) The middle class and poor get looted on a regular
basis though, generally by the rich and governments.
How sad that you believe the rich only got rich because of some
secret knowledge or other corruption or theft. Ever hear of
innovation, a new idea, hard work, etc etc. but you probably don't
even realize what a socialist mindset you have. Your class warfare
jabs sounds great when you are predisposed to a victim
mentality.
the other fellow has it right, yep, if you want less of
something tax it.
I didn't say that it's secret knowledge or corruption or theft
(although I did mention looting, which happens automatically by
dollar devaluation and other means.) The ultra-rich make their
money because they understand the system, and the system is one
that rewards people who borrow, invest, etc and punishes people who
save. By borrowing, I mean the creation of money (which is
generally borrowed into existence), which devalues the wealth of
savers and increases the wealth of producers. Heck,
even homeowners get a piece of the action (when home values
aren't dropping.) Anyone who borrows to invest, borrows
to buy assets, or borrows to invest is participating in a
great transfer of wealth, and it's going from the poor and
middle class to the rich. Even traders are participating. When
you make big gains, who do you think the money is coming from? Less
educated traders and investors, the portfolios of the middle class,
etc.
Now I'm a capitalist, but I'm not ignorant to the fact that this
wealth transfer is happening on a regular basis. That's what I was
referring to, namely that the poor and middle class who are
uneducated are being looted through dollar devaluation and bad
investments. This is a fact, although it's not a pretty
one. On the other hand, it's the business owners, investors,
and capitalists who are largely responsible for things like new
technology, better businesses, cheaper products, etc. So it's
not like the world would be better without the rich. Far from
it.
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I just heard on the
Posted by billrosen on 7th of Oct 2009 at 10:28 am
I just heard on the radio this morning Florida is giving something like $25 million to people in the state that are falling behind with their bills. Specifically Broward County where I live is dishing out $500k to people that have missed a utility bill, mortgage payment, rent payment, etc...of course only if those people fall under the 50% mark income per household. Those at the mean average and above get nothing. This is how Chavez started 10 years ago in Venezuela. Get the poor, lazy and ignorant masses on your side and you can turn a great capitalist country into a socialist/communist shit hole.
Why do you group poor people with
Posted by jbarry on 7th of Oct 2009 at 11:25 am
Why do you group poor people with the lazy and ignorant? It's not their fault they are poor.
Oh, so it is not their
Posted by billrosen on 7th of Oct 2009 at 12:00 pm
Oh, so it is not their fault they are poor??? Who's fault is it then??? Who's responsibilty it is to make them rich??? You won't find that in the constitution. Although there are exceptions, the vast mojority of the poor and ignorant are living the lives they live because they make really dumb decisions in their lives time and time again. Tough times are pretty much guaranteed when people chooseto have 3 kids before they are 20 years old, choosebe a criminal and have a felony on their record so they can't get a decent job, chooseto abuse drugs or alcohol, chooseto be a horrible parent to their kids so they have no role models, chooseto stay on welfare, chooseto take the food stamps, chooseto not learn English, chooseto collect unemployment, chooseto accept unemployment because it pays not to work. That is why the poor and stupid remain that way and yes it their fault and their problem to fix, NOT mine, or yours, our governments problem to fix. The nice thing about America (or at least it was) even the most uneducated and poorest people from the most humble backgrounds can stay in school, save money, live below their means, raise their kids correctly and become quite wealthly with hard work and persistence. The problem is we just don't teach personal responsibilty to anyone, anywhere, on any level, anymore.
It must be nice to
Posted by jbarry on 7th of Oct 2009 at 01:07 pm
It must be nice to be perfect and have never made any mistakes or poor choices.
Hey, everyone makes mistakes, but
Posted by billrosen on 7th of Oct 2009 at 01:27 pm
Hey, everyone makes mistakes, but most people learn from them, however those that make immensely stupid, apathetic and self destructive decisions over and over again deserve what they get...and my point was, it is their own problem to solve, not anyone elses. We are soley responsible to ourselves what we get out of life. Ultimately that philosophy of self reliance will help lift them out of the lower class. Apparently do not understand stand that. If you think my point is invalid, why don't you pony up half of your paycheck each week to the poor in your own neighborhood since they desperately deserve help to get out of the problems society has so unfairly burdened them with?
bill -- you're either preaching
Posted by Michael on 7th of Oct 2009 at 01:42 pm
bill -- you're either preaching to the choir or beating a dead horse. waste of energy either way.
HEY -- FedEx just brought my new computer!
I hear ya Michael, just
Posted by billrosen on 7th of Oct 2009 at 01:46 pm
I hear ya Michael, just trying to educate the ignorant once in awhile, but probably will fall on deaf ears
I hope you're not calling
Posted by jbarry on 7th of Oct 2009 at 03:33 pm
I hope you're not calling me ignorant. There is a big difference between ignorance and compassion. Certain people need help. Not all, but some.
King Edward VI of England
Posted by fkarlson on 7th of Oct 2009 at 12:56 pm
King Edward VI of England was convinced that not all poverty is the same, but arises from three causes -- casualty, impotence and thriftlessness. He was also convinced that he would help all the poor except those in the third class. Those who wasted their money, due to their lifestyle or financial decisions, would receive nothing due to their lack of thriftiness.
If our financial institutions go down the drain, it will be because of thriftlessness, not casualty or impotence. The Clinton administration allowed a law to be changed so that banks could be reckless in their investments. Both the Bush and Obama administrations deemed the large banks too big to fail, despite the choices they have made. In the process, unfortunately for us, we will pay dearly, due to the debt that has been placed on our shoulders. We can invest wisely, but not without an awareness of the dangers that lie ahead.
And I stand by my
Posted by user32 on 7th of Oct 2009 at 12:03 pm
And I stand by my original assertion - if "Robin Hood" steals from the rich and gives to the poor, then said Hood doesn't exist, since nobody steals from the rich.
nice to see that Robin
Posted by camomile on 7th of Oct 2009 at 10:41 am
nice to see that Robin hood is back in style.... lol
Except that Robin Hood didn't
Posted by erty on 7th of Oct 2009 at 10:57 am
Except that Robin Hood didn't steal from the rich to give to the poor. Robin Hood stole from the government to give to the poor
The rich also steal from
Posted by fkarlson on 7th of Oct 2009 at 11:38 am
The rich also steal from the poor. Goldman Sachs et al. -- ring any bells?
That's true. If you look
Posted by user32 on 7th of Oct 2009 at 11:43 am
That's true. If you look at things the right way, nobody ever steals from the rich. Everyone else gets robbed, but nobody ever really steals from the rich, because the rich know how the system works. (After all, it's how they got rich in the first place.) The middle class and poor get looted on a regular basis though, generally by the rich and governments.
user32 How sad
Posted by perthx on 7th of Oct 2009 at 11:47 am
How sad that you believe the rich only got rich because of some secret knowledge or other corruption or theft. Ever hear of innovation, a new idea, hard work, etc etc. but you probably don't even realize what a socialist mindset you have. Your class warfare jabs sounds great when you are predisposed to a victim mentality.
the other fellow has it right, yep, if you want less of something tax it.
I didn't say that it's
Posted by user32 on 7th of Oct 2009 at 12:00 pm
I didn't say that it's secret knowledge or corruption or theft (although I did mention looting, which happens automatically by dollar devaluation and other means.) The ultra-rich make their money because they understand the system, and the system is one that rewards people who borrow, invest, etc and punishes people who save. By borrowing, I mean the creation of money (which is generally borrowed into existence), which devalues the wealth of savers and increases the wealth of producers. Heck, even homeowners get a piece of the action (when home values aren't dropping.) Anyone who borrows to invest, borrows to buy assets, or borrows to invest is participating in a great transfer of wealth, and it's going from the poor and middle class to the rich. Even traders are participating. When you make big gains, who do you think the money is coming from? Less educated traders and investors, the portfolios of the middle class, etc.
Now I'm a capitalist, but I'm not ignorant to the fact that this wealth transfer is happening on a regular basis. That's what I was referring to, namely that the poor and middle class who are uneducated are being looted through dollar devaluation and bad investments. This is a fact, although it's not a pretty one. On the other hand, it's the business owners, investors, and capitalists who are largely responsible for things like new technology, better businesses, cheaper products, etc. So it's not like the world would be better without the rich. Far from it.