Posted by racerick on 26th of Jun 2009 at 12:31 pm
Pdani,
As someone who as run a trading room as well as a hedge fund,
Matt and Steve have to walk a very fine line. Though the SEC
doesn't have time or manpower to go after the Madoffs of the world,
they have plenty of resources to go after operators of investment
rooms and newsletters. So you have to be extremely careful on what
you say and how you say it. Why do you think Cramer says a 100
times a show if he has a position in anything he mentions? In fact,
many room operators purposely will not trade the same stocks as
they rec. or if they do they have to disclose.
The problem comes that when they disclose, a certain number of
clients will follow them into the trade, in essence chase the trade
even if it's already moved. Each person's risk tolerance and
financial capability is different as well as their ability to
manage a trade. So if the trade goes against them whereas they may
take a small loss, the clients may take a larger loss. That can
lead to suits and complaints to the SEC. Matt and Steve have
often talked about there are two ways to take a trade when a stock
is in a channel, well actually 3. When the stock is on the bottom
of the channel, which is a little riskier, but does allow you to
have tighter stops; when it initially breaks out or after it
initially breaks out and retests and you buy it off the re-test,
which is probably the least risk of the 3. So if Matt chose to buy
GDx prior to the breakout for whatever reason, that's not
necesarily something that he would share with his clients because
it was a riskier trade in some respects.
RP and I trade identical, but our style of trading is definitely
not for everyone, at best, very few. Reason what few posts I make
tend to be real short term swings because they're based on longer
term charts and are probably less risky than some because we have a
lot of swing traders in here. So the point I'm trying to make is,
what Matt and Steve may do personally may not be in the best
interest of the majority of the traders in here. As you can see
from the track record of their posted rec. taking the conservative
route can be very profitable and pretty darn high percentage. Yeah,
I was ticked that I missed the GDX trade too, but I was long gold
futures and some other gold stocks and as Matt stated he'd been
talking about it for a week.
One other quick point I'd like to make it the quality of the
technical research that you get here, though I personally think a
little too much emphasis given to Elliott Wave, is literally first
class and way over and above board for what we pay. I 've seen and
have gotten institutional technical reports that STARTED at
$5000/mo that were not as frequent or comprehensive and gave
way fewer trade ideas. You guys don't realize what a gift this site
is. It saves me 3-4 hours/day at least.
no need to come to Matt's defence - certainly not from from me -
I am on his side...I was actually trying to give him a little
advice (like he really needs it...) by agreeing with Bill Rosen
here, and pointing out that it is not a good idea to tell people
after the fact that he made a good call on anything, when perhaps
the official published comments were not so clear...best to just
have the comments and let people decide whatever they want...I am
fully aware of the fine line they need to walk to steer away from
"investment advice" etc. Matt's comment "Next time I just wont say
anything, hows that." is really the right approach, even though he
sounds a little peeved (you really shouldn't be)...that's basically
what I was suggesting - if you don't tell, nobody will be able to
criticize you.
By the way, I know of other people in this business who simply
tell you what they do and seem not be caught by the regulators -
seems that if you do this right away and tell people everything you
do and make sure you don't "front-run" your recommendations, you
are ok - but I am not an expert.
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In Matt's Defense
SPX 15
Posted by racerick on 26th of Jun 2009 at 12:31 pm
Pdani,
As someone who as run a trading room as well as a hedge fund, Matt and Steve have to walk a very fine line. Though the SEC doesn't have time or manpower to go after the Madoffs of the world, they have plenty of resources to go after operators of investment rooms and newsletters. So you have to be extremely careful on what you say and how you say it. Why do you think Cramer says a 100 times a show if he has a position in anything he mentions? In fact, many room operators purposely will not trade the same stocks as they rec. or if they do they have to disclose.
The problem comes that when they disclose, a certain number of clients will follow them into the trade, in essence chase the trade even if it's already moved. Each person's risk tolerance and financial capability is different as well as their ability to manage a trade. So if the trade goes against them whereas they may take a small loss, the clients may take a larger loss. That can lead to suits and complaints to the SEC. Matt and Steve have often talked about there are two ways to take a trade when a stock is in a channel, well actually 3. When the stock is on the bottom of the channel, which is a little riskier, but does allow you to have tighter stops; when it initially breaks out or after it initially breaks out and retests and you buy it off the re-test, which is probably the least risk of the 3. So if Matt chose to buy GDx prior to the breakout for whatever reason, that's not necesarily something that he would share with his clients because it was a riskier trade in some respects.
RP and I trade identical, but our style of trading is definitely not for everyone, at best, very few. Reason what few posts I make tend to be real short term swings because they're based on longer term charts and are probably less risky than some because we have a lot of swing traders in here. So the point I'm trying to make is, what Matt and Steve may do personally may not be in the best interest of the majority of the traders in here. As you can see from the track record of their posted rec. taking the conservative route can be very profitable and pretty darn high percentage. Yeah, I was ticked that I missed the GDX trade too, but I was long gold futures and some other gold stocks and as Matt stated he'd been talking about it for a week.
One other quick point I'd like to make it the quality of the technical research that you get here, though I personally think a little too much emphasis given to Elliott Wave, is literally first class and way over and above board for what we pay. I 've seen and have gotten institutional technical reports that STARTED at $5000/mo that were not as frequent or comprehensive and gave way fewer trade ideas. You guys don't realize what a gift this site is. It saves me 3-4 hours/day at least.
Title: In Matt's Defence Hey racerick, no
Posted by pdani on 26th of Jun 2009 at 01:50 pm
Hey racerick,
no need to come to Matt's defence - certainly not from from me - I am on his side...I was actually trying to give him a little advice (like he really needs it...) by agreeing with Bill Rosen here, and pointing out that it is not a good idea to tell people after the fact that he made a good call on anything, when perhaps the official published comments were not so clear...best to just have the comments and let people decide whatever they want...I am fully aware of the fine line they need to walk to steer away from "investment advice" etc. Matt's comment "Next time I just wont say anything, hows that." is really the right approach, even though he sounds a little peeved (you really shouldn't be)...that's basically what I was suggesting - if you don't tell, nobody will be able to criticize you.
By the way, I know of other people in this business who simply tell you what they do and seem not be caught by the regulators - seems that if you do this right away and tell people everything you do and make sure you don't "front-run" your recommendations, you are ok - but I am not an expert.