I have been hesitant to post some of my A-Eye research, fearing
it may be too long and "blow up" the readability of all the great
contributions here, but here goes anyway. I used to "enjoy"
shorting tickers, esp when big profits are made quickly, but with
historic trend upwards, shorting is like betting against the
house....you might win sometimes, but you are swimming upstream.
That said, I will pursue some semi-or-fully automated day
trading on indices. Be aware that if you are short a ticker,
you will be assessed dividends....so here are some work arounds.
Short answer: you normally can’t short a dividend-paying
share and avoid paying the dividend — if you borrow the share to
short it, your broker will require you to pay the lender an
equivalent amount (a “payment in lieu” of the dividend).
If your goal is economic short exposure without having to
directly pay dividends, here are the workable alternatives (with
pros/cons and practical notes):
1) Buy put options (or put spreads) — the simplest retail
alternative
What: buy a put on the stock (or buy a bear-put spread to
reduce cost). If the stock falls, the put gains; you never borrow
shares so you don’t pay the dividend.
Pros: limited downside (max loss = premium paid), no dividend
payments, easy to trade in most brokerage accounts.
Cons: options expire (time decay), can be expensive if
implied volatility is high, and a sustained slow decline can still
lose money because of theta. Early-exercise/assignment risk exists
for short option sellers (not buyers) around ex-dividend dates, so
be careful if you sell options.
2) Use inverse ETFs (if you want index/sector short exposure)
What: buy an inverse ETF that moves opposite an index (or
-1x/-2x/-3x leveraged inverse ETFs).
Pros: no share borrow, no dividend payments from you as a
short. Works well for short-term tactical exposure to an index.
Cons: many inverse ETFs rebalance daily and suffer
compounding/decay over time — they’re typically not suitable as
long-term shorts. Also, for single-stock exposure you likely won’t
find a single-stock inverse ETF.
What: institutional investors can use total-return swaps or
cash-settled derivatives to get short exposure without borrowing
shares; offshore brokers offer CFDs that simulate short exposure
without lending.
Pros: can replicate short returns without paying dividends
directly.
Cons: TRS/OTC swaps are mostly for institutions; CFDs are not
allowed in the U.S. for retail and carry counterparty risk and
fees. These are complex and require careful legal/credit
consideration.
4) Short the stock but close before the ex-dividend date
What: if you must short the share, close the position before
ex-dividend to avoid becoming responsible for the dividend payment.
Pros: avoids dividend cashflows.
Cons: requires precise timing — ex-dividend risk and price
behavior around ex-dividend can make this costly. Also borrowing
costs and recall risk still apply.
Schwab Brokerage
Tax and accounting note
Payments you make to the lender (“payments in lieu of
dividends”) when shorting are treated differently for tax purposes;
there are special rules (and possible limits on deductions) — check
IRS Pub. 550 / expert tax advice for your situation.
TaxAct
Practical retail recommendation (if you’re not an
institutional trader)
If it’s a single stock: buying puts (or a bear-put spread) is
usually the cleanest way to be short economically without paying
dividends.
If it’s a broad market or sector: consider an inverse ETF for
short-term trades.
Avoid naive short-selling of dividend payers if your goal is
to avoid paying dividends — the broker will pass that cost through
to you.
Always check: option liquidity, bid/ask spreads, margin
requirements, borrow fees (if shorting), and your broker’s rules
about payments-in-lieu and forced buy-ins.
Risks & final cautions
All these alternatives have tradeoffs (time decay,
counterparty risk, daily rebalancing, assignment risk, etc.). Don’t
treat options or inverse ETFs as “free” or riskless substitutes for
shorting. Talk to your broker about execution costs and to a tax
pro about tax treatment for payments in lieu.
If you want, tell me the ticker and whether you prefer a
conservative/cost-sensitive approach or an aggressive one, and I’ll
sketch concrete option strikes/ETFs or walk through an example
trade (with estimated costs and risks).
The community is delayed by three days for non registered users.
I picked some up yesterday
nice on PALL and SPPP
Posted by steveo on 11th of Nov 2025 at 03:50 pm
I picked some up yesterday SPPP
LOL I had enough at
SPY and MEs mean reversion systems update
Posted by steveo on 10th of Nov 2025 at 11:11 pm
LOL I had enough at risk with one long futures
6816
I am up nicely on the SPY long using Emini ...
Posted by steveo on 10th of Nov 2025 at 03:30 pm
6816
I am up nicely on
Posted by steveo on 10th of Nov 2025 at 02:48 pm
I am up nicely on the SPY long using Emini /ES Dec, but thinking about setting a stop, any thoughts?
Took some pain for a
UNG nat gas
Posted by steveo on 4th of Nov 2025 at 03:21 pm
Took some pain for a while, but now nicely profitable UNG
unfortunately, I missed the after
JANX
Posted by steveo on 28th of Oct 2025 at 03:41 pm
unfortunately, I missed the after hours buy, but got it on this backtest.
UNG, the widow maker, looks
Posted by steveo on 27th of Oct 2025 at 08:42 pm
UNG, the widow maker, looks really good to me, although I am in a slightly negative long already.
OUCH 16.8 TO 9.8 IN
CRML - Just cleared the premarket high
Posted by steveo on 6th of Oct 2025 at 12:13 pm
OUCH 16.8 TO 9.8 IN 1 HOUR!
To chase or not to
ASTS Updated
Posted by steveo on 2nd of Oct 2025 at 02:06 pm
To chase or not to chase, how does one think about such a thing?
I have been hesitant to
Posted by steveo on 2nd of Oct 2025 at 01:53 pm
I have been hesitant to post some of my A-Eye research, fearing it may be too long and "blow up" the readability of all the great contributions here, but here goes anyway. I used to "enjoy" shorting tickers, esp when big profits are made quickly, but with historic trend upwards, shorting is like betting against the house....you might win sometimes, but you are swimming upstream. That said, I will pursue some semi-or-fully automated day trading on indices. Be aware that if you are short a ticker, you will be assessed dividends....so here are some work arounds.
Short answer: you normally can’t short a dividend-paying share and avoid paying the dividend — if you borrow the share to short it, your broker will require you to pay the lender an equivalent amount (a “payment in lieu” of the dividend).
If your goal is economic short exposure without having to directly pay dividends, here are the workable alternatives (with pros/cons and practical notes):
1) Buy put options (or put spreads) — the simplest retail alternative
What: buy a put on the stock (or buy a bear-put spread to reduce cost). If the stock falls, the put gains; you never borrow shares so you don’t pay the dividend.
Pros: limited downside (max loss = premium paid), no dividend payments, easy to trade in most brokerage accounts.
Cons: options expire (time decay), can be expensive if implied volatility is high, and a sustained slow decline can still lose money because of theta. Early-exercise/assignment risk exists for short option sellers (not buyers) around ex-dividend dates, so be careful if you sell options.
2) Use inverse ETFs (if you want index/sector short exposure)
What: buy an inverse ETF that moves opposite an index (or -1x/-2x/-3x leveraged inverse ETFs).
Pros: no share borrow, no dividend payments from you as a short. Works well for short-term tactical exposure to an index.
Cons: many inverse ETFs rebalance daily and suffer compounding/decay over time — they’re typically not suitable as long-term shorts. Also, for single-stock exposure you likely won’t find a single-stock inverse ETF.
3) Use single-stock futures / CFD / swaps (institutional / non-US retail options)
What: institutional investors can use total-return swaps or cash-settled derivatives to get short exposure without borrowing shares; offshore brokers offer CFDs that simulate short exposure without lending.
Pros: can replicate short returns without paying dividends directly.
Cons: TRS/OTC swaps are mostly for institutions; CFDs are not allowed in the U.S. for retail and carry counterparty risk and fees. These are complex and require careful legal/credit consideration.
4) Short the stock but close before the ex-dividend date
What: if you must short the share, close the position before ex-dividend to avoid becoming responsible for the dividend payment.
Pros: avoids dividend cashflows.
Cons: requires precise timing — ex-dividend risk and price behavior around ex-dividend can make this costly. Also borrowing costs and recall risk still apply.
Schwab Brokerage
Tax and accounting note
Payments you make to the lender (“payments in lieu of dividends”) when shorting are treated differently for tax purposes; there are special rules (and possible limits on deductions) — check IRS Pub. 550 / expert tax advice for your situation.
TaxAct
Practical retail recommendation (if you’re not an institutional trader)
If it’s a single stock: buying puts (or a bear-put spread) is usually the cleanest way to be short economically without paying dividends.
If it’s a broad market or sector: consider an inverse ETF for short-term trades.
Avoid naive short-selling of dividend payers if your goal is to avoid paying dividends — the broker will pass that cost through to you.
Always check: option liquidity, bid/ask spreads, margin requirements, borrow fees (if shorting), and your broker’s rules about payments-in-lieu and forced buy-ins.
Risks & final cautions
All these alternatives have tradeoffs (time decay, counterparty risk, daily rebalancing, assignment risk, etc.). Don’t treat options or inverse ETFs as “free” or riskless substitutes for shorting. Talk to your broker about execution costs and to a tax pro about tax treatment for payments in lieu.
If you want, tell me the ticker and whether you prefer a conservative/cost-sensitive approach or an aggressive one, and I’ll sketch concrete option strikes/ETFs or walk through an example trade (with estimated costs and risks).
? DS is what
Mean Reversion systems
Posted by steveo on 25th of Sep 2025 at 03:53 pm
? DS is what
NEOV, stop out, probably at
Posted by steveo on 25th of Sep 2025 at 03:52 pm
NEOV, stop out, probably at the lows, LOL. Was this a double fake break out breakdown
LIT looks parabolic, take profits, and hope for pullback?
Buy the Kipper, new meme
Yom Kippur begins tonight Wednesday
Posted by steveo on 25th of Sep 2025 at 03:51 pm
Buy the Kipper, new meme
bounding off a demand zone
ALAB - help! I've fallen and I can't get up
Posted by steveo on 24th of Sep 2025 at 03:35 pm
bounding off a demand zone now
wait for a true backtest,
Posted by steveo on 24th of Sep 2025 at 03:35 pm
wait for a true backtest, or chase this breakout!>?! chime in please, what else to look for?
LOL i am almost even
KYIV getting a bounce on Trump's Ukraine optimism?
Posted by steveo on 24th of Sep 2025 at 03:31 pm
LOL i am almost even on the trade....now an "investment"
/GC is a weekly shooting
GDX daily eveningstar pattern
Posted by steveo on 24th of Sep 2025 at 03:29 pm
/GC is a weekly shooting star
Thats another widow making, I
BTU Updated
Posted by steveo on 24th of Sep 2025 at 03:26 pm
Thats another widow making, I wonder what the short interest was?
looks interesting
CAH
Posted by steveo on 23rd of Sep 2025 at 04:36 pm
looks interesting
Still in the pattern, but
SRE and ES - a couple of utility names
Posted by steveo on 23rd of Sep 2025 at 04:07 pm
Still in the pattern, but could do well with Sept seasonality (weakest month)