I had a stop of $2.08 on AXAS which was triggered by a low ball
bid but the stock never even traded there.
Then on AHD my stop of $6.55 was done the same way.
I sure wish the SEC would change this rule, it sucks that there
only has to be a bid and not a trade to trigger these stops.
But then that would help us little guys who arn't "big enough to
fail" !
Posted by seadelight on 7th of Jan 2010 at 10:22 am
Didn't have that problem today but i did last week. No
help from the "new" Merrill though. The best advice given to
me when I asked the same question was to close out at the end of
the day or just keep your stops to yourself and enter them a few
minutes after the open each day to avoid this exact
situation. I was watching the TS Matrix yesterday and saw the
same thing happen to someone else. Quick drop to pick up some
stops at the open then right back to the close from the day
before. Some specialist is making money doing that at our
expense.
stops don't get elected if the market is bid at your stop.
a trade must be made at the price for it to elect. You
should call your clearing house and get AXAS
reversed.
as far as AHD goes, well, that's just tough luck and part of the
game.
keep in mind trading these super thin stocks is different
than trading deep stocks. you need to be more careful
about when and how you place your stops. many times
i'll use stop close only, which is more risky but
avoids market maker flushes. otherwise
i won't leave them out there for the open if price is close to
my stop. i trade out myself. If price is
away, I'll enter after the opening 5 or 10
min.
stever, stop at the close means at the close of the bar, if I
understand you. What time interval are you setting your bar to?
Thanks for the information.
No, at the close of the DAY. your stop will only be
elected if the closing price of the day is beyond your stop
level. for example, using AHD, if you have a 6.55
sell stop close only, your stop would not have been
elected at the low earlier today. only if it closes at
or below 6.55 at the end of the day. if it doesn't, you're
still alive in the trade, which at the current 6.85
price, is looking good. as I said, it's
more risky because price can end up at 6.00 and you'd be exiting
there. But on the other hand, you avoid getting taken
out during stop seeking intraday flushes and
spikes. hope that helps.
I don't think that takes the risk out either, I don't see that
there is a good option for me at this time. I've been on the phone
with the SEC for what that's worth.
If any one else wants to complain about this practice send an
email to
I talked to both Schwab and TDameritrade and they both said it
was subject to the bid and not the trade. But you are right,
If I'd place a "Stop Limit" this wouldn't have happened on AXAS but
it still would have on AHD. It's just a problem for me as I
don't always have the time to sit here and watch all day. I tend to
catch the open and close of the markets but try to do other things
during the day. It's always the open when this happens so I may
just change my way of placing stops. turn them on an off every
morning.......
I have had bad fills before, and i have called the broker and
complained. Sometimes they will give you a better price if the
stock never traded that level. I use fidelity, and they have given
me a better price, however they will tell you that sometimes the
market makers give higher prices to small lots. worth a try..hope
this helps? also for that reason, I don't like to leave stops on
overnite. I either sell it or take the stop off..just my humble
thoughts..Carl
Thanks Carl, I had called and no Schwab didn't offer to correct
it. I have an account at TDAmeritrade too and sometimes they will
offer free trades but then this is a problem with the market rules
and not the brokerage houses. I agree the only way around this is
to truely be a "day trader" and sell out at EOD or place the stops
after the markets open and settle down but that's not always
possible for me.
I was Just venting.........,......
Newsletter
Subscribe to our email list for regular free market updates
as well as a chance to get coupons!
Screwed twice at the open
Posted by ditch on 7th of Jan 2010 at 09:58 am
I wondered if anyone else had this problem today?
I had a stop of $2.08 on AXAS which was triggered by a low ball bid but the stock never even traded there.
Then on AHD my stop of $6.55 was done the same way.
I sure wish the SEC would change this rule, it sucks that there only has to be a bid and not a trade to trigger these stops. But then that would help us little guys who arn't "big enough to fail" !
Didn't have that problem today
Posted by seadelight on 7th of Jan 2010 at 10:22 am
Didn't have that problem today but i did last week. No help from the "new" Merrill though. The best advice given to me when I asked the same question was to close out at the end of the day or just keep your stops to yourself and enter them a few minutes after the open each day to avoid this exact situation. I was watching the TS Matrix yesterday and saw the same thing happen to someone else. Quick drop to pick up some stops at the open then right back to the close from the day before. Some specialist is making money doing that at our expense.
stops don't get elected if
Posted by steever on 7th of Jan 2010 at 10:22 am
stops don't get elected if the market is bid at your stop. a trade must be made at the price for it to elect. You should call your clearing house and get AXAS reversed.
as far as AHD goes, well, that's just tough luck and part of the game.
keep in mind trading these super thin stocks is different than trading deep stocks. you need to be more careful about when and how you place your stops. many times i'll use stop close only, which is more risky but avoids market maker flushes. otherwise i won't leave them out there for the open if price is close to my stop. i trade out myself. If price is away, I'll enter after the opening 5 or 10 min.
good luck.
Title: stop at the close stever,
Posted by junkie on 7th of Jan 2010 at 10:44 am
stever, stop at the close means at the close of the bar, if I understand you. What time interval are you setting your bar to? Thanks for the information.
No, at the close of
Posted by steever on 7th of Jan 2010 at 11:10 am
No, at the close of the DAY. your stop will only be elected if the closing price of the day is beyond your stop level. for example, using AHD, if you have a 6.55 sell stop close only, your stop would not have been elected at the low earlier today. only if it closes at or below 6.55 at the end of the day. if it doesn't, you're still alive in the trade, which at the current 6.85 price, is looking good. as I said, it's more risky because price can end up at 6.00 and you'd be exiting there. But on the other hand, you avoid getting taken out during stop seeking intraday flushes and spikes. hope that helps.
Thanks again, I don't think that
Posted by ditch on 7th of Jan 2010 at 11:22 am
Thanks again,
I don't think that takes the risk out either, I don't see that there is a good option for me at this time. I've been on the phone with the SEC for what that's worth.
If any one else wants to complain about this practice send an email to
help@sec.gov
I talked to both Schwab
Posted by ditch on 7th of Jan 2010 at 10:26 am
I talked to both Schwab and TDameritrade and they both said it was subject to the bid and not the trade. But you are right, If I'd place a "Stop Limit" this wouldn't have happened on AXAS but it still would have on AHD. It's just a problem for me as I don't always have the time to sit here and watch all day. I tend to catch the open and close of the markets but try to do other things during the day. It's always the open when this happens so I may just change my way of placing stops. turn them on an off every morning.......
Thanks for the input.
bad fill
Posted by carpru on 7th of Jan 2010 at 10:06 am
I have had bad fills before, and i have called the broker and complained. Sometimes they will give you a better price if the stock never traded that level. I use fidelity, and they have given me a better price, however they will tell you that sometimes the market makers give higher prices to small lots. worth a try..hope this helps? also for that reason, I don't like to leave stops on overnite. I either sell it or take the stop off..just my humble thoughts..Carl
Thanks Carl, I had called
Posted by ditch on 7th of Jan 2010 at 10:13 am
Thanks Carl, I had called and no Schwab didn't offer to correct it. I have an account at TDAmeritrade too and sometimes they will offer free trades but then this is a problem with the market rules and not the brokerage houses. I agree the only way around this is to truely be a "day trader" and sell out at EOD or place the stops after the markets open and settle down but that's not always possible for me.
I was Just venting.........,......