Posted by marketguy on 21st of Jul 2009 at 08:23 pm
just need to vent...not that I'm a disgruntled bear (which I am
right now) since last Weds or so but this mkt over the last
couple/three days is a freaking joke....the 30 min Slo Sto 60 has
been over 80 for over "5" days now/almost "6" (unheard of from
what I can see over almost any time period)...it FINALLY breaks
under 80 today for all of an hour or two and then OUT OF NO WHERE
the SPX decides to stop at 943, not 941 which would have made sense
(given it was yesterday's low) but 943 for reasons I'm sure only
GS, MS and maybe JPM would understand and then they proceed to run
the ever living sh*t out of it until the close....give me a bloody
break....and of course in the process push the Slo Sto 60 back
"over" 80
...don't get me totally wrong, I'm on
board for the final move up to 1050-1100 but not so much as a 5pt
pullback (basically) in 10 days?
unbelievable...unbelievable....
the "only" thing that might make sense is they wanted to
thoroughly clear the decks of shorts today in anticipation of a
4-5% dump day or two tomorrow/Thurs...that I could believe...a push
much over 960 and I'll throw in the towel from my corner....
it's better to short weakness than to short strength, but if you
must try to pick the top then you have to play small and use close
stops. Sometimes it takes MANY attempts to get the turn, that is
where discipline takes over. Might be better for you to wait
for a clear reversal, and m.a. crossovers. The second mouse gets
the cheese.
PA- just for interest, what happened to the first mouse?
As an anology, thinking the longer we stay at these lvl, the
more shorts (first mouse) we draw in; fuel for a squeeze esp if we
get close to Dow 9000; can get ugly.
I think you've said it very well. I've never been a conspiracy
guy at all, but this market has so many earmarks of manipulation.
Clearly our government wants the market up, but the Fed cannot
legally intervene in the equity market like it intervenes in the
bond market, so I've been thinking about how this is probably
working. My own hunch is that a few soverign wealth funds (China
probably, Japan maybe) have funneled very large sums to GS (which
seems like it has become our de facto Treasury Department) and that
gives them the ability to do things like hit the market with a 15
billion dollar futures buy at a key reversal point -- some place
where you trap a lot of shorts. I think for the Chinese or Japanese
or whoever, it's a win-win deal -- they are probably making a huge
ROI on their GS trading account, and they are effectively working
with the Fed and the Treasury to prop up our market, which is just
as important to them -- a US crash pulls them down too. And they're
used to propping up markets -- the Japanese have been trying to do
it forever -- and we can all see how effective it's been! How long
can they keep it up? Probably until it becomes painfully obvious
that we are not recovering and that the banks are still choking on
bad paper, etc. There is something about October that fixes the
mind.
The lead article in the Financial Times today might support some
of your suspicions. The Chinese are deploying their Forex reserves
to target international opportunities. The official quoted stated
that the ostensible targets of such investment will be natural
resources and commodities plays, not Wall Street opportunities.
This could be disingenuous subterfuge. Maybe they are playing both
ends to the middle. The Chinese and the Americans are locked in a
dragon/tiger dance. The Chinese have been increasing, not
decreasing their purchases of Treasuries despite the call to arms
to marginalize the dollar. If they do not support the American debt
structure then their exports decline and unemployment is their
haunting devil. If they try to liquidate their dollar reserves they
will destabilize their own portfolio of wealth. And in the process
throw America into a depression, further exacerbating a downward
spiral in their exports.
It wouldn't surprise me that Geithner and Bernanke and their
Chinese counterparts have had discussions on how to support their
fears of runaway inflation. Supporting (manipulating) the American
stock exchanges through GS and JPM and others seems no less
tangible than the manipulation of the markets to support the
failing banks since March by the Treasury and Fed.
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sorry no charts...
Posted by marketguy on 21st of Jul 2009 at 08:23 pm
just need to vent...not that I'm a disgruntled bear (which I am right now) since last Weds or so but this mkt over the last couple/three days is a freaking joke....the 30 min Slo Sto 60 has been over 80 for over "5" days now/almost "6" (unheard of from what I can see over almost any time period)...it FINALLY breaks under 80 today for all of an hour or two and then OUT OF NO WHERE the SPX decides to stop at 943, not 941 which would have made sense (given it was yesterday's low) but 943 for reasons I'm sure only GS, MS and maybe JPM would understand and then they proceed to run the ever living sh*t out of it until the close....give me a bloody break....and of course in the process push the Slo Sto 60 back "over" 80
...don't get me totally wrong, I'm on
board for the final move up to 1050-1100 but not so much as a 5pt
pullback (basically) in 10 days?
unbelievable...unbelievable....
the "only" thing that might make sense is they wanted to thoroughly clear the decks of shorts today in anticipation of a 4-5% dump day or two tomorrow/Thurs...that I could believe...a push much over 960 and I'll throw in the towel from my corner....
sincerely,
wish I would've waited until this week to short
Marketguy
it's better to short weakness
Posted by PA on 22nd of Jul 2009 at 11:48 am
it's better to short weakness than to short strength, but if you must try to pick the top then you have to play small and use close stops. Sometimes it takes MANY attempts to get the turn, that is where discipline takes over. Might be better for you to wait for a clear reversal, and m.a. crossovers. The second mouse gets the cheese.
PA- just for interest, what
Posted by gan_ on 22nd of Jul 2009 at 12:06 pm
PA- just for interest, what happened to the first mouse?
As an anology, thinking the longer we stay at these lvl, the more shorts (first mouse) we draw in; fuel for a squeeze esp if we get close to Dow 9000; can get ugly.
Posted by PA on 22nd of Jul 2009 at 04:30 pm
I think you've said it
Posted by puma on 21st of Jul 2009 at 09:00 pm
I think you've said it very well. I've never been a conspiracy guy at all, but this market has so many earmarks of manipulation. Clearly our government wants the market up, but the Fed cannot legally intervene in the equity market like it intervenes in the bond market, so I've been thinking about how this is probably working. My own hunch is that a few soverign wealth funds (China probably, Japan maybe) have funneled very large sums to GS (which seems like it has become our de facto Treasury Department) and that gives them the ability to do things like hit the market with a 15 billion dollar futures buy at a key reversal point -- some place where you trap a lot of shorts. I think for the Chinese or Japanese or whoever, it's a win-win deal -- they are probably making a huge ROI on their GS trading account, and they are effectively working with the Fed and the Treasury to prop up our market, which is just as important to them -- a US crash pulls them down too. And they're used to propping up markets -- the Japanese have been trying to do it forever -- and we can all see how effective it's been! How long can they keep it up? Probably until it becomes painfully obvious that we are not recovering and that the banks are still choking on bad paper, etc. There is something about October that fixes the mind.
Market Manipulation
Posted by geotex on 21st of Jul 2009 at 09:55 pm
The lead article in the Financial Times today might support some of your suspicions. The Chinese are deploying their Forex reserves to target international opportunities. The official quoted stated that the ostensible targets of such investment will be natural resources and commodities plays, not Wall Street opportunities. This could be disingenuous subterfuge. Maybe they are playing both ends to the middle. The Chinese and the Americans are locked in a dragon/tiger dance. The Chinese have been increasing, not decreasing their purchases of Treasuries despite the call to arms to marginalize the dollar. If they do not support the American debt structure then their exports decline and unemployment is their haunting devil. If they try to liquidate their dollar reserves they will destabilize their own portfolio of wealth. And in the process throw America into a depression, further exacerbating a downward spiral in their exports.
It wouldn't surprise me that Geithner and Bernanke and their Chinese counterparts have had discussions on how to support their fears of runaway inflation. Supporting (manipulating) the American stock exchanges through GS and JPM and others seems no less tangible than the manipulation of the markets to support the failing banks since March by the Treasury and Fed.