Posted by CopperMtn on 3rd of Jan 2012 at 11:28 am
I recently had our fee-only advisor ask the same question of
Schwab, the custodian of our funds. Their answer was that they can
only rehypothicate assets in client margin accounts that have a
margin balance, and then only up to the limit of the margined
position. FINRA who regulates brokers (unlike CFTC who regulated MF
Global) requires Schwab to allocate 102% of the rehypothicated
balance as cash to the client account from whose assets were
hypothicated. Schwab currently sports about a 13.4 leverage ratio
so they aren't too overleveraged.
The question I have asked is whether Schwab can transfer our
account to an affiliate in a jurisdiction with more lax
regulations - as MF Global apparently did when they transferred
client accounts to a British affiliate. To me, that is as big a
danger as whether or not they can rehypothicate assets.
Posted by parkridge77 on 3rd of Jan 2012 at 11:27 am
WHY would you want your funds to be over SPIC insurance limit is
perhaps the first question I would review. Further on the
cash-- as I understand it-- cash is covered by FDIC
insurance only up to 250K ? but that is something to
verify.
You aren't even covered by basic insurance because your accts.
are over the limit sounds like. So- even if MSSB fails due to other
reasons- you aren't covered.Personally I would rebalance pronto to
get that in order.
I would get in touch with the legal dept. directly if it were my
$. I would also think of using a few houses & diversifying my
funds. A lot of work, some expense -- but then I lost $$$ at MF--
so I think well worth the extra pre-caution.
after have worked for many BD's, I have found for the most part
the brokers really don't know if they funds are or are not
segregated. I never knew if what my manager was tell me was
correct. Mainly because he didn't work in legal. If the
broker will put in writing and on their letter head and the
branch manager and broker sign it, then maybe you will
be ok. Otherwise, it's you call.
Question for the room...
Posted by whs956 on 3rd of Jan 2012 at 11:13 am
We have discovered (no surprise) that Morgan Stanley investment bank is into re hypothecation for over $400 billion.
We have our pension with MSSB and our broker says that Morgan Stanley Investment side is separate from Morgan Stanley Smith Barney.
We have a cash account there so our funds (which are over the 500K SIPC limit) are not subject to being used as collateral.
My question.... Do you think it prudent to trust the broker regarding segregation of funds between MS and MSSB?
It will be a lot of trouble to split up the account so we don't want to do this unless we have to.
What think ye?
thank you
I recently had our fee-only
Posted by CopperMtn on 3rd of Jan 2012 at 11:28 am
I recently had our fee-only advisor ask the same question of Schwab, the custodian of our funds. Their answer was that they can only rehypothicate assets in client margin accounts that have a margin balance, and then only up to the limit of the margined position. FINRA who regulates brokers (unlike CFTC who regulated MF Global) requires Schwab to allocate 102% of the rehypothicated balance as cash to the client account from whose assets were hypothicated. Schwab currently sports about a 13.4 leverage ratio so they aren't too overleveraged.
The question I have asked is whether Schwab can transfer our account to an affiliate in a jurisdiction with more lax regulations - as MF Global apparently did when they transferred client accounts to a British affiliate. To me, that is as big a danger as whether or not they can rehypothicate assets.
WHY would you want your
Posted by parkridge77 on 3rd of Jan 2012 at 11:27 am
WHY would you want your funds to be over SPIC insurance limit is perhaps the first question I would review. Further on the cash-- as I understand it-- cash is covered by FDIC insurance only up to 250K ? but that is something to verify.
You aren't even covered by basic insurance because your accts. are over the limit sounds like. So- even if MSSB fails due to other reasons- you aren't covered.Personally I would rebalance pronto to get that in order.
I would get in touch with the legal dept. directly if it were my $. I would also think of using a few houses & diversifying my funds. A lot of work, some expense -- but then I lost $$$ at MF-- so I think well worth the extra pre-caution.
after have worked for many
Posted by mehciz on 3rd of Jan 2012 at 11:23 am
after have worked for many BD's, I have found for the most part the brokers really don't know if they funds are or are not segregated. I never knew if what my manager was tell me was correct. Mainly because he didn't work in legal. If the broker will put in writing and on their letter head and the branch manager and broker sign it, then maybe you will be ok. Otherwise, it's you call.
segregated funds
Posted by biscuit on 3rd of Jan 2012 at 11:16 am
ask the broker if he will guarantee the segregated funds personally. in writing.
also, do NOT use jon
Posted by biscuit on 3rd of Jan 2012 at 11:23 am
also, do NOT use jon corzine as the notary of the contract.
"do NOT use jon corzine
Posted by rixx on 3rd of Jan 2012 at 11:32 am
"do NOT use jon corzine as the notary of the contract"
Yeah ... use Bernie Madoff instead. :)
Best to diversify your trading capital between a number of brokers.
Title: Thanks guys. That's what I
Posted by whs956 on 3rd of Jan 2012 at 11:49 am
That's what I am thinking too.