guys regarding the
blackdog strategythat
brophywas kind enough to share. that strategy is in Think or
Swim and before everyone get too excited, I have yet to fully
investigate the strategy - I want to look at the statistics and all
past trades, I plan to look it over on the long weekend
that said - I've given the task to James Roe, the developer here
and he's going to code it up for Tradestation. He would also be
able to port over to Tradview View as well.
I will share the code on that strategy once we complete it's
conversion so that you guys can use if you wish. The Tradingview
and Tradestation might be more useful for most who don't have
TOS.
I have not had a chance to look at the code or backtest the
Blackdog strategy, but I have been watching it on the NQ 2min the
last day and a half. I have noticed that the "long" and
"short" bubbles as well as some of the arrows "repaint" -
they could be there and then when the next bar completes, they
could be gone - or even two bars later. This makes the
strategy look better than it might be in "real time" . Having
said that, it has helped me be ready for a potential direction
change.
Posted by James_Roe on 2nd of Sep 2022 at 12:10 pm
The thing you have to understand about these wave systems is
that they all do this repainting, Matt and I have looked at a
number of them over the years.
They will remove the highs or the lows as more data gets added
so they look better historically than they do in real time. They
tend to work pretty well in trending markets, and to not work that
well in chop. They're a useful trading tool but very hard to use
for a programatic system.
The best use case is probably identifying intraday inflection
points, but you might not be able to tell that it was a good
inflection point until an hour or two later.
As an aside the admins over at use think script felt the need to
post a similar warning in the thread brophy linked because they do
look so seductive at first glance, as always there's no grail, just
things that might help with your trading style and give you a
little bit of an edge.
thanks for posting that James, it's a great point, I had just
opened it and have been looking at it a bit.
1. The repainting of past trades/bars is an issue for a
strategy. When you look at past trades they look great but they
might not have done that in reality and will change and disappear -
it looks far better in the past than it was in practice. We've
looked at strategies like this before and at the time came to the
conclusion that we couldn't run them - I ran money with some of
them and the results were very frustrating because of that. If you
go to the forum on the TS side where that strategy is posted the
Admin has a post about waring about this.
2. remember that the market has been having big intra day swings
for the past 3 weeks and even MA cross strategies would work well
in that. Where you would have issues is more of a sideways chop
day. Also, on that forum one guy comments that he's been using a 5
and 15 EMA cross strategy and found it better because the signals
were real, and you know how I don't like MA cross strats.
again I still have to investigate it more fully but for now it
looks more like a nice tool to use but not some grail strategy -
it's more of an indicator/tool
I'd like to thank Brophy for posting it, I really appreciate
when folks share info that might help us all
I was planning to port over to Tradestation and Trading View,
however gonna put that on hold because it's not a strategy that can
be automated as I discussed above. It's really more of an
indicator, and realize it will not look as good in real time as the
painted past. We have a lot on our plate and James made some
progress on it, however it's something we'll come back to at a
later date and finish it and post it for those other platforms. In
the meantime you can monitor it for free on TOS through its paper
trading - but it will be delayed data unless you open an
account
Thanks, Matt. True. As a suggestion, I use longer-term charts
which do not have the habit of "repainting" so much - like trading
in the daytime period. Thanks to you and Steve for all your hard
work.
guys regarding the blackdog strategythat
Hi guys: Getting a lot of questions about what that ...
Posted by matt on 2nd of Sep 2022 at 10:17 am
guys regarding the blackdog strategythat brophywas kind enough to share. that strategy is in Think or Swim and before everyone get too excited, I have yet to fully investigate the strategy - I want to look at the statistics and all past trades, I plan to look it over on the long weekend
that said - I've given the task to James Roe, the developer here and he's going to code it up for Tradestation. He would also be able to port over to Tradview View as well.
I will share the code on that strategy once we complete it's conversion so that you guys can use if you wish. The Tradingview and Tradestation might be more useful for most who don't have TOS.
I have not had a
Posted by pjtiii on 2nd of Sep 2022 at 11:29 am
I have not had a chance to look at the code or backtest the Blackdog strategy, but I have been watching it on the NQ 2min the last day and a half. I have noticed that the "long" and "short" bubbles as well as some of the arrows "repaint" - they could be there and then when the next bar completes, they could be gone - or even two bars later. This makes the strategy look better than it might be in "real time" . Having said that, it has helped me be ready for a potential direction change.
The thing you have to
Posted by James_Roe on 2nd of Sep 2022 at 12:10 pm
The thing you have to understand about these wave systems is that they all do this repainting, Matt and I have looked at a number of them over the years.
They will remove the highs or the lows as more data gets added so they look better historically than they do in real time. They tend to work pretty well in trending markets, and to not work that well in chop. They're a useful trading tool but very hard to use for a programatic system.
The best use case is probably identifying intraday inflection points, but you might not be able to tell that it was a good inflection point until an hour or two later.
As an aside the admins over at use think script felt the need to post a similar warning in the thread brophy linked because they do look so seductive at first glance, as always there's no grail, just things that might help with your trading style and give you a little bit of an edge.
thanks for posting that James,
Posted by matt on 2nd of Sep 2022 at 01:51 pm
thanks for posting that James, it's a great point, I had just opened it and have been looking at it a bit.
1. The repainting of past trades/bars is an issue for a strategy. When you look at past trades they look great but they might not have done that in reality and will change and disappear - it looks far better in the past than it was in practice. We've looked at strategies like this before and at the time came to the conclusion that we couldn't run them - I ran money with some of them and the results were very frustrating because of that. If you go to the forum on the TS side where that strategy is posted the Admin has a post about waring about this.
2. remember that the market has been having big intra day swings for the past 3 weeks and even MA cross strategies would work well in that. Where you would have issues is more of a sideways chop day. Also, on that forum one guy comments that he's been using a 5 and 15 EMA cross strategy and found it better because the signals were real, and you know how I don't like MA cross strats.
here's a link to the forum where you can read posts about it
https://usethinkscript.com/threads/black-dogs-elliot-wave-strategy-for-thinkorswim.11813/
again I still have to investigate it more fully but for now it looks more like a nice tool to use but not some grail strategy - it's more of an indicator/tool
I'd like to thank Brophy for posting it, I really appreciate when folks share info that might help us all
I was planning to port over to Tradestation and Trading View, however gonna put that on hold because it's not a strategy that can be automated as I discussed above. It's really more of an indicator, and realize it will not look as good in real time as the painted past. We have a lot on our plate and James made some progress on it, however it's something we'll come back to at a later date and finish it and post it for those other platforms. In the meantime you can monitor it for free on TOS through its paper trading - but it will be delayed data unless you open an account
Thanks, Matt. True. As a
Posted by brophy on 3rd of Sep 2022 at 08:01 am
Thanks, Matt. True. As a suggestion, I use longer-term charts which do not have the habit of "repainting" so much - like trading in the daytime period. Thanks to you and Steve for all your hard work.
Good point James. I have
Posted by brophy on 2nd of Sep 2022 at 12:15 pm
Good point James. I have added an SLO STO 10,3 for that very reason.
Agreed.. definitely helps. Would like
Posted by johnny2012 on 2nd of Sep 2022 at 11:36 am
Agreed.. definitely helps. Would like to use it for longer time frames and may get less "repaint" but its already been super helpful.
Thanks Matt, Appreciate that
Posted by kattap on 2nd of Sep 2022 at 10:34 am
Thanks Matt, Appreciate that
Thanks Matt!! That would be greatly
Posted by mirhamedali on 2nd of Sep 2022 at 10:32 am
Thanks Matt!!
That would be greatly appreciated