Last Night I talked about how I've bought a lot of physical
gold over the years etc, this morning I had some questions in my
inbox about what I buy, how I sell it, what dealers do I use, and
other thoughts. Therefore here's a response I sent to one
member, however I'm posting it here so that if others had the same
questions hopefully this will address some of your questions
----
Hello Richie, good morning and nice to hear from you! Thanks
for the comments about my mom, she's been pretty sick for a while,
she's been to the hospital a handful of times in the last month or
two, she's getting old and we are worried about her long term
health. We all have to deal with it one day with our parents
as you know, but it's always hard.
Anyway yes I've been buying
physical gold for years, since 2001. I like the physical gold
for long term investment vs the ETF GLD. The benefit to
owning GLD is that you can of course sell it with a click of a
mouse and you don't have the hassle of selling it back to
Kitco or the coin shop, etc.
The limitation of physical gold is
that it's not easy to sell. However the fact that physical
gold is more difficult to sell can also be a good thing, and it's
been a good thing for me over the years since gold is in a secular
bull market. Here's why: I have bought a lot of
physical gold over the years all the way back to the 300's, 400's,
600's, 800's, 1000, 1200, 1500's etc and I still own most of the
gold that I've bought over the years. However I did sell
quite a bit last year in Aug when gold topped out at $1900 when I
was calling for a top as it was way extended > 25% above its 200
day MA. I also sold some in previous years when gold got very
overbought in the short term. However I then bought back what
I sold after corrections finally occurred, such as late last year
in Dec and this year in Jan. However otherwise, I buy it on
major pullbacks/dips and I don't chase rallies.
One of the main reasons that I
still own this gold is not because I'm such a good long term
investor, as you know I tend to be a short term trader, but because
I can't just click my mouse and sell it like I can a stock like
GLD!! The fact that it's more work to sell the physical metal
(i.e. I have to drive an hr to the local coin dealer, or call
Kitco) has prevented me from selling at times when I probably would
have sold out if I ONLY had GLD stock. This cause me to only
sell when I'm really sure that some sort of top in in place, vs GLD
where it would be too easy for me to sell early. This has
allowed me to benefit during the 10 year bull market in gold, vs
missing out on the gains by short term trading the
ETF.
however for physical gold, I only
buy on good pullbacks, I never chase!
Now as far as sources where I buy
the gold, I've bought from
kitco.com in the past a few times, I've had a good experience with
them, they will also buy your gold. I've also bought gold
from
Miles Franklin a few times and have had great experience with them as
well.
As far as selling my gold/silver,
I've sold some on Ebay and to the companies listed above, however
I've also sold quite a bit to a local coin dealer, they are a
distributor and will buy any amount that I bring them i.e. I can
sell them 1 ounces or 500 ounces, they will take it no matter what.
Of course selling to a local dealer you have to sell 1 - 2%
below spot, whereas if you buy from them you have to pay 1- 2% over
spot prices, but of course that's how they make their money.
If you sell on places like Ebay, you can get more for your
gold, but it's also more of a hassle.
As far as what I buy, I've
generally bought mainly 1 ounce bars, either Pamp Swiss
or Australian Perth Bars. I've also bought some 10
ounce bars from time to time, however I don't own a lot of them
because it's easier to sell the 1 ounce bars and you can't
break out a 10 ounce bar obviously. I've also bought a lot of
coins, I like the Canadian Maples, and I bought a bunch of the new
US Gold Buffalos over the past year years, though you pay a premium
for them.
I agree 100% with your point about
not wanting to buy rare gold coins because it adds a complication
i.e. you now have two values, one is the value of the gold content,
the other is collectible rarity value. Personally I
only buy the newer coins that only have their value in their gold,
vs 100 year old coins that are worth more because they are rare,
that way there is no complication and know exactly how much it's
worth. Yes you can buy a rare gold eagle from the 1920's for
$20,000, but that price fluctuates a lot and what happens if things
really got bad around the world? My bet is that the gold
would be worth it's value, but people might not pay as much extra
for the rarity collectible value.
Anyway one day gold will hit a
major top and it will be time to sell most or all of our gold, I
think that time is still 2 - 3 years away perhaps. Hopefully
gold will hit $3000 an ounce by then
I prefer to use my local dealer to purchase with cash.
silver on the other hand, I have bought online through apmex or
gainsville coins. Might as well get air miles to fly it out
of the country some day...lol!
I have been away all day but I saw a post regarding buying
physical gold. I buy mine at
Bullionvault.com This company is based in England and but
has vaults in Zurich, London and New York. The benefits are 1). you
buy very close to spot and sell likewise. 2)You buy and sell to
other traders pretty much round the clock so you don't have to wait
for the markets to open. I have made good trades early in the
morning or at night this way (before the masses even know gold is
moving up or down). 3) If you are afraid of government confiscation
(which I am not) then you can keep assets oversees. And if you want
you can take delivery but their storage costs are so cheap why?
Posted by c32y7pr8 on 23rd of Feb 2012 at 10:10 pm
My experience is with the purchase of
Krugerrands. Many years ago it was a simple matter to buy over the
counter from a number of dealers including Spink, and the
spread was very low. More recently as the spread increased, I used
Baird & Co. at Hatton Garden. That has all changed now. It is
difficult to find anyone selling over the counter and the spreads
are all unreasonable. The Royal Mail is now completely
untrustworthy, as I have found to my cost recently.
Baird & Co. only trade wholesale at
Hatton Garden. Their retail is now in docklands, way over to the
east of London, near Beckton. My last order was collect and it
was a memorable James Bond sort of experience. Huge warehouses and
masses of high protective fencing. No humans to be seen, a voice
booming out instructions for entry over the Tannoy. As the
automatic gates rolled behind me I wondered whether I should get
out alive.
The current Baird price on their
website for a 1oz. Krugerrand is £1177.75. which is just over
$1800
Depending where you are and how much you buy but I have bought
from CoinInvest they are UK based but you buy through Germany and
if you ask to have the consignment collected or picked up through
Vai Mat Bullion you will only pay 7% German VAT on Silver.
Guernsey - have been known to a select few of us, manage to get
the consignments shipped to us in the UK without VAT applied
;-))
Hatton are always good for Gold and do some business in Silver
and buy back at reasonable rates.
For fellow Canadian members, Scotia Mocatta is a primary gold
dealer. You can buy and sell gold through any Scotia bank,
although there is a delivery fee to/from any branch outside of the
one co-located with the Scotia Mocatta office in Ottawa.
Physical Gold, buying, selling, etc
Posted by matt on 23rd of Feb 2012 at 10:37 am
Last Night I talked about how I've bought a lot of physical gold over the years etc, this morning I had some questions in my inbox about what I buy, how I sell it, what dealers do I use, and other thoughts. Therefore here's a response I sent to one member, however I'm posting it here so that if others had the same questions hopefully this will address some of your questions
----
Hello Richie, good morning and nice to hear from you! Thanks for the comments about my mom, she's been pretty sick for a while, she's been to the hospital a handful of times in the last month or two, she's getting old and we are worried about her long term health. We all have to deal with it one day with our parents as you know, but it's always hard.
Anyway yes I've been buying physical gold for years, since 2001. I like the physical gold for long term investment vs the ETF GLD. The benefit to owning GLD is that you can of course sell it with a click of a mouse and you don't have the hassle of selling it back to Kitco or the coin shop, etc.
The limitation of physical gold is that it's not easy to sell. However the fact that physical gold is more difficult to sell can also be a good thing, and it's been a good thing for me over the years since gold is in a secular bull market. Here's why: I have bought a lot of physical gold over the years all the way back to the 300's, 400's, 600's, 800's, 1000, 1200, 1500's etc and I still own most of the gold that I've bought over the years. However I did sell quite a bit last year in Aug when gold topped out at $1900 when I was calling for a top as it was way extended > 25% above its 200 day MA. I also sold some in previous years when gold got very overbought in the short term. However I then bought back what I sold after corrections finally occurred, such as late last year in Dec and this year in Jan. However otherwise, I buy it on major pullbacks/dips and I don't chase rallies.
One of the main reasons that I still own this gold is not because I'm such a good long term investor, as you know I tend to be a short term trader, but because I can't just click my mouse and sell it like I can a stock like GLD!! The fact that it's more work to sell the physical metal (i.e. I have to drive an hr to the local coin dealer, or call Kitco) has prevented me from selling at times when I probably would have sold out if I ONLY had GLD stock. This cause me to only sell when I'm really sure that some sort of top in in place, vs GLD where it would be too easy for me to sell early. This has allowed me to benefit during the 10 year bull market in gold, vs missing out on the gains by short term trading the ETF.
however for physical gold, I only buy on good pullbacks, I never chase!
Now as far as sources where I buy the gold, I've bought from kitco.com in the past a few times, I've had a good experience with them, they will also buy your gold. I've also bought gold from Miles Franklin a few times and have had great experience with them as well.
As far as selling my gold/silver, I've sold some on Ebay and to the companies listed above, however I've also sold quite a bit to a local coin dealer, they are a distributor and will buy any amount that I bring them i.e. I can sell them 1 ounces or 500 ounces, they will take it no matter what. Of course selling to a local dealer you have to sell 1 - 2% below spot, whereas if you buy from them you have to pay 1- 2% over spot prices, but of course that's how they make their money. If you sell on places like Ebay, you can get more for your gold, but it's also more of a hassle.
As far as what I buy, I've generally bought mainly 1 ounce bars, either Pamp Swiss or Australian Perth Bars. I've also bought some 10 ounce bars from time to time, however I don't own a lot of them because it's easier to sell the 1 ounce bars and you can't break out a 10 ounce bar obviously. I've also bought a lot of coins, I like the Canadian Maples, and I bought a bunch of the new US Gold Buffalos over the past year years, though you pay a premium for them.
I agree 100% with your point about not wanting to buy rare gold coins because it adds a complication i.e. you now have two values, one is the value of the gold content, the other is collectible rarity value. Personally I only buy the newer coins that only have their value in their gold, vs 100 year old coins that are worth more because they are rare, that way there is no complication and know exactly how much it's worth. Yes you can buy a rare gold eagle from the 1920's for $20,000, but that price fluctuates a lot and what happens if things really got bad around the world? My bet is that the gold would be worth it's value, but people might not pay as much extra for the rarity collectible value.
Anyway one day gold will hit a major top and it will be time to sell most or all of our gold, I think that time is still 2 - 3 years away perhaps. Hopefully gold will hit $3000 an ounce by then
I hope this helps
I prefer to use my
Posted by oops1e on 24th of Feb 2012 at 08:22 am
I prefer to use my local dealer to purchase with cash.
silver on the other hand, I have bought online through apmex or gainsville coins. Might as well get air miles to fly it out of the country some day...lol!
Physical gold
Posted by tomW1 on 23rd of Feb 2012 at 06:08 pm
I have been away all day but I saw a post regarding buying physical gold. I buy mine at
Bullionvault.com This company is based in England and but has vaults in Zurich, London and New York. The benefits are 1). you buy very close to spot and sell likewise. 2)You buy and sell to other traders pretty much round the clock so you don't have to wait for the markets to open. I have made good trades early in the morning or at night this way (before the masses even know gold is moving up or down). 3) If you are afraid of government confiscation (which I am not) then you can keep assets oversees. And if you want you can take delivery but their storage costs are so cheap why?
Bullionvault.com
Posted by dallassteve on 24th of Feb 2012 at 09:22 am
Thanks for this info, tornW1
I like Tulving.com and coloradogold.com. and keep my gold where I can get at it.
This company sounds like a good alternative, and I will check it out.
Would subscribers have recommendations for physical metals dealers in UK or Continental Europe?
Posted by bgold on 23rd of Feb 2012 at 11:50 am
UK BULLION
Posted by c32y7pr8 on 23rd of Feb 2012 at 10:10 pm
My experience is with the purchase of Krugerrands. Many years ago it was a simple matter to buy over the counter from a number of dealers including Spink, and the spread was very low. More recently as the spread increased, I used Baird & Co. at Hatton Garden. That has all changed now. It is difficult to find anyone selling over the counter and the spreads are all unreasonable. The Royal Mail is now completely untrustworthy, as I have found to my cost recently.
Baird & Co. only trade wholesale at Hatton Garden. Their retail is now in docklands, way over to the east of London, near Beckton. My last order was collect and it was a memorable James Bond sort of experience. Huge warehouses and masses of high protective fencing. No humans to be seen, a voice booming out instructions for entry over the Tannoy. As the automatic gates rolled behind me I wondered whether I should get out alive.
The current Baird price on their website for a 1oz. Krugerrand is £1177.75. which is just over $1800
bgold - European Bullion Dealers
Posted by saturn6 on 23rd of Feb 2012 at 01:07 pm
The best service I get is from...
http://www.coininvestdirect.com/en/silver_coins/
http://www.guernseymint.com/shop/silver-coins/c-23/c-74
http://www.hattongardenmetals.com/scrap-gold-prices.aspx
Depending where you are and how much you buy but I have bought from CoinInvest they are UK based but you buy through Germany and if you ask to have the consignment collected or picked up through Vai Mat Bullion you will only pay 7% German VAT on Silver.
Guernsey - have been known to a select few of us, manage to get the consignments shipped to us in the UK without VAT applied ;-))
Hatton are always good for Gold and do some business in Silver and buy back at reasonable rates.
Physical Gold
Posted by dave858 on 23rd of Feb 2012 at 10:57 am
For fellow Canadian members, Scotia Mocatta is a primary gold dealer. You can buy and sell gold through any Scotia bank, although there is a delivery fee to/from any branch outside of the one co-located with the Scotia Mocatta office in Ottawa.
thanks for posting additional information
Posted by matt on 23rd of Feb 2012 at 11:21 am
thanks for posting additional information
Border Gold
Posted by libertina on 23rd of Feb 2012 at 11:04 am
Take a look at Border Gold in White Rock BC, good rates and service, reasonable charge for Fedex delivery with insurance.