Totally understand. I was simply trying to reiterate (if anyone was reading my post) that symmetry is pretty "squishy."  I did not go long, btw. In fact I bought a QQQ put and as price continued down I sold a lower QQQ put for more than what I paid for the first put. So it's a winning trade no matter what. I try to enter spreads that way anytime I can.

Now, yesterday's 53 pt up move becomes the bounce symmetry to beat before going long. So I won't be getting bullish until that happens.

Also, SPX turned down basically at the 9 ema. If you day trade it would have been a reasonable short w/ a tight stop.

Speaking of symmetry, the current SPX pull back will equal yesterday morning's pullback at roughly 2637 (can exceed that by 8pts and still be only 20% greater than yesterday's, which was 39 pts). Will the bulls show up? We'll see....

You mean this wedge?   

Intraday divergence on the SPX and VIX: SPX made a new low just now, but VIX did not. Have to see if it holds eod. 

Nice trigger, too. the 15 min candle at 10:30 was a doji, you could have shorted on a break below it. (Not me, though, w/ an IRA.)

SPX candle analysis, 2-hr chart. The first candle of the day was an outside reversal candle, and we've broken below its low.

Nice! Thanks for sharing.

Thing is, it's incredibly hard to find the cajones to short this market, especially in an IRA where you have to have the conviction to hold over a few days or more, in the face of bounces, inverse h&s that play out on smaller time frames, etc.

Yeah, I was kind of wondering whether that would count, being about a 15% difference (20.2 vs. 17.4 on the previous one). As you say, needs to be a fairly obvious break.

But, as Steve would say, in a downtrend the surprises will be to the down side!

There's your symmetry break.

Good one - I saw that as well, but can't trade that time frame in my SEP IRA   

Thanks, and thanks also to oatdust - I had listened to the trade ideas and the market newsletter, but hadn't got to the commodities yet.

Matt, is there a new coffee ETF/ETN replacing JO? I can't find anything on the web. Just CAFE as an alternative ETN (supposed to handle contango better).

buy an OTM put that you can afford to lose all on.

Good point.

Triggered! Internals are 3 to 1 positive.

The right shoulder was a 61.8% retrace of the initial up move this morning. I'd like to see that shoulder taken out in short order if we are to continue down.

SPX: 5 min inverse head and shoulders possibility. In spite of those bearish candles, we may see more upside?? Hasn't broken the neckline yet, though.